little stereo help needed

[bigmanr6]

I was wondering how everyone keeps there batteries charged while listening to there stereos. I have two batteries but they power the whole boat. the stereo has two amps two 10 inch subs and four mid and tweeters. I would hate to listen to it all day and then not be able to start the boat just wondering if anyone had a simple solution. thanks

[fohbuddha]

bigman,

I have friends that have big stereo's with only 2 batteries. They usually run on one while at anchor and then use the other to start the boat. They also run the Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries. I have one in my boat and it works great. What kind of batteries are you using now and how big is your boat? If it is the one in the avatar it looks to be over 30'. What else are you powering while you are coved out or at an island? I can't imagine you are powering that much. You could also carry one of the jump packs with you.

There is a guy on here that knows alot about stereo's and batteries. Maybe he will chime in.

Buddha

[BDM]

IMO, I'd leave the two that you have setup like they are, and unhook the stereo's power from them, as well as amp, etc. all audio stuff.

Then, I would add two AGM batteries, and set them up to power the stereo, amps, etc. that you use when you're not running with the engine.

I believe you can get a battery switch that would allow you to do this as well, as well as still charge all four batteries with the engine.

Others will chime in I'm sure, this is just how I would do it. :) Good luck!

[fohbuddha]

I assumed that he has a battery switch. Great idea on the extra batteries BDM. You could always install a battery charger so you can charge the stereo batteries when you are at the dock or on the trailer. Can you hook batteries together on a switch say 2 on each side of the switch or do they make a 4 battery switch?

Buddha

[26 Spyder]

This is how I would do it.
Hook the stereo up to its battery(s) and the engine its own.
Use a battery isolater to charge both batteries when the engine is running, and it will keep it seperated when running the stereo.
Put a switch between your batteries, either manual or electric for emergencies. A manual switch works better.
You can also use a multiple battery switch if it is wired and used properly.

[BDM]

If you wire the positive on one battery to the positive on the other battery, then to the switch, you could use a 2 battery switch to do the same thing. As long as you're wiring same terminals together, all you're doing is increasing capacity of the batteries, not voltage.

It's called parallel wiring.

If you wired the positive on battery a to the negative on battery b, and the positive on b to the boat, with the negative on a to the boat, you'd have 24 volts instead of 12. Bad. Don't do this. Ever. That's called wiring in series.

Anyway, what I was recommending was positive terminals wired together on both batteries for the engine, then to the switch. Then, both negatives together, then to the ground on the engine.

For the stereo, I would do the same, with the positive going from one battery to the next, then to the other side of the 2 battery switch. Negative to ground of course.

All you're effectively doing by wiring it this way is combining two batteries into what the switch and engine will see as one battery.

[fohbuddha]

If you wire the positive on one battery to the positive on the other battery, then to the switch, you could use a 2 battery switch to do the same thing. As long as you're wiring same terminals together, all you're doing is increasing capacity of the batteries, not voltage.

It's called parallel wiring.

If you wired the positive on battery a to the negative on battery b, and the positive on b to the boat, with the negative on a to the boat, you'd have 24 volts instead of 12. Bad. Don't do this. Ever. That's called wiring in series.

Anyway, what I was recommending was positive terminals wired together on both batteries for the engine, then to the switch. Then, both negatives together, then to the ground on the engine.

For the stereo, I would do the same, with the positive going from one battery to the next, then to the other side of the 2 battery switch. Negative to ground of course.

All you're effectively doing by wiring it this way is combining two batteries into what the switch and engine will see as one battery.

Thanks for the information. While my boat is not very large, I have talked about putting in a second battery, now maybe I won't need a switch.

Buddha

[BDM]

In a smaller boat, with an "average" size system, I wouldn't think you would need a switch... I'd just add another battery to it and go from there.

Keep in mind though if you're pairing batteries like I suggested, I would heavily recommend that you pair two of the same identical type. Also, when one goes bad, I'd replace both, just to be safe and ensure that they're both working together at the same rate, etc.

[bigmanr6]

thanks for the info guys the boat is 22ft scarab has a battery switch I may go with the two other agm batteries for the stereo and leave the two others for just the boat. they only power a cb gps and the lights on the boat and the motor thats about it.

[fohbuddha]

In a smaller boat, with an "average" size system, I wouldn't think you would need a switch... I'd just add another battery to it and go from there.

Keep in mind though if you're pairing batteries like I suggested, I would heavily recommend that you pair two of the same identical type. Also, when one goes bad, I'd replace both, just to be safe and ensure that they're both working together at the same rate, etc.
While I really don't need to replace my battery yet, maybe my option is to buy two new ones and keep the 3 year old AGM for a spare.

Thanks

Buddha

[BDM]

And you could do that fohbuddha... I don't really have any "scientific" data to backup my statement that I would change them together, other then the fact that I know batteries of different types don't get along well together because they discharge at differing rates...

Here's some info that pertains to boats directly....

http://www.boatfix.com/how/Ele2.html

[26 Spyder]

In a smaller boat, with an "average" size system, I wouldn't think you would need a switch... I'd just add another battery to it and go from there.



You need either a switch or an isolator to keep your engine battery from draining while coved and running your stereo system off of its battery(s).

[BDM]

Well yeah.... but the thought behind my comment is that with two batteries, wired in parallel, unless you're coving for 10 hours without starting the engine, I wouldn't think you would drain it far enough to not be able to start the engine, unless you have a bigger than "stock" stereo.

The isolator is a great way to separate one battery for the engine, and one for the stereo.... but that's not really what I was intending by my comments...

[fohbuddha]

Good info here. I really like the AGM batteries, LA69MM turned me on to them a few years ago (thanks buddy) so that is pretty much all I use. I have gotten them for friends and we all swear by them. I have heard you could use the Deep Cycle batteies but you don't want to mix and match them. I probably would feel safer adding a switch in the engine compartment for them to keep them isolated.

Buddha

[26 Spyder]

If you are running a seperate amp it will drain quicker than you think.
You can test it in your driveway or at the dock to see how long you have until it is dead. If it is turned up (which it usually is) you may have an hour or 2, if that, with a small system.
There are always situations to prove me wrong, But that is my experience.
If I am installing a boat system, a lot of work goes in to the battery and charging system.

[bigmanr6]

thats the problem with my system it has one amp for the subs and one for the mids and tweets so Im not sure how long two batteries will last. I need to jam out in the drive way and see how long :mrgreen:

[BoatnFool]

If you wire the positive on one battery to the positive on the other battery, then to the switch, you could use a 2 battery switch to do the same thing. As long as you're wiring same terminals together, all you're doing is increasing capacity of the batteries, not voltage.

It's called parallel wiring.

Anyway, what I was recommending was positive terminals wired together on both batteries for the engine, then to the switch. Then, both negatives together, then to the ground on the engine.

For the stereo, I would do the same, with the positive going from one battery to the next, then to the other side of the 2 battery switch. Negative to ground of course.

All you're effectively doing by wiring it this way is combining two batteries into what the switch and engine will see as one battery.

I have 4 speakers and a regular old cd/ipod head unit. I just bought an amp but No sub. Would you recommend two batteries tied together like this? I'd think this setup would be ample for my needs?

[BDM]

What is your intent for the amp? Is it hooked up right now and pushing the 4 speakers? If so, you may need something more.....

If not, two batteries in parallel, I would think, would be sufficient.

HiTechRedNeck is who needs to come in here and comment... as well as Christian and Eddie... I think they're the ones who have all the marine installation experience. All my experience relates to cars / trucks, but the battery wiring stuff is universal between them.

Speaking of that, have you ever seen the batteries they use for hydraulics in a car? :shock: That chit is serious!

[26 Spyder]

thats the problem with my system it has one amp for the subs and one for the mids and tweets so Im not sure how long two batteries will last. I need to jam out in the drive way and see how long :mrgreen:

Looks like a good weekend to grab your favorite beverage and crank up the tunes in the boat for a test! :mrgreen:

I just put my batteries on a charger in hopes that I may get a little time to hit the water over the weekend! :)

Let us know how the test turned out.

[BoatnFool]

What is your intent for the amp? Is it hooked up right now and pushing the 4 speakers? If so, you may need something more.....

If not, two batteries in parallel, I would think, would be sufficient.

HiTechRedNeck is who needs to come in here and comment... as well as Christian and Eddie... I think they're the ones who have all the marine installation experience. All my experience relates to cars / trucks, but the battery wiring stuff is universal between them.

Speaking of that, have you ever seen the batteries they use for hydraulics in a car? :shock: That chit is serious!

Yeah, the amp will push the four speakers. I bought it last fall and have not installed it yet. I was going to do the switch route, but if it's not needed I'll save the cash. I'm VERY stereo ignorant.

[26 Spyder]

HiTechRedNeck is who needs to come in here and comment... as well as Christian and Eddie... I think they're the ones who have all the marine installation experience.


FYI, I have done a few marine installs as well. Somewhere I have a first place trophy from the first lake stereo shootout..:)

Not too bad for a work boat!

[BDM]

THAT is pretty Spyder. :) awesome job!

Didn't know that... only person I knew that were into boat stereos were the people I listed. :)

Either way, awesome install!

[csheldon]

I'll bet you are getting paid and some poor other guy has to do your work. :mrgreen:

[26 Spyder]

THAT is pretty Spyder. :) awesome job!

Didn't know that... only person I knew that were into boat stereos were the people I listed. :)

Either way, awesome install!

Thanks, I have done a few here and there and worked with Matt When Aquatic Audio was at W-Point Marina. I did most of the electrical and assisted in "marinizing" the systems. It helped since I am and was a Mercruiser Certified Tech on the installs.
The system pictured was in my work boat and it was designed and built to win the shootout. It was a quickie though, but it was loud!

[fohbuddha]

Wow Spyder!!! I would like to see the whole install. Post some more pics. Is that meter in decibels?

Buddha

[26 Spyder]

I'll bet you are getting paid and some poor other guy has to do your work. :mrgreen:


If refering to me, nope! I am all hands on and have the scars and bloody knuckles to prove it.:mrgreen:
I am digging a piece of fiberglass out of my thumb right now as I type....

I have hired help in the past and found the only way to get it done right is for me to do it myself!:roll:

[26 Spyder]

Wow Spyder!!! I would like to see the whole install. Post some more pics. Is that meter in decibels?

Buddha

Yes, it is decibels.
I will see what I have for pics. The boat was a beater '79 Sea Ray With a 400 HP EFI 355 and a Bravo 1 Drive.:mrgreen:

[BDM]

I'll bet you are getting paid and some poor other guy has to do your work. :mrgreen:

A. you're one to talk.

B. He's talking about me Spyder... I work for a local government, so he thinks if I don't do my job, then someone else has to.... what he doesn't know is there's just not a LOT to do right now... :(

[26 Spyder]

A few more. My truck at the time (pictured) would hit 158 db.

[26 Spyder]

A. you're one to talk.

B. He's talking about me Spyder... I work for a local government, so he thinks if I don't do my job, then someone else has to.... what he doesn't know is there's just not a LOT to do right now... :(

Gotcha, it'll take me awhile to get to know everyone here.:)

[fohbuddha]

Yes, it is decibels.
I will see what I have for pics. The boat was a beater '79 Sea Ray With a 400 HP EFI 355 and a Bravo 1 Drive.:mrgreen:
I love the vent holes for the subs under the seat. What is the total number of speakers in the boat?

Buddha

[eddie]

HiTechRedNeck is who needs to come in here and comment... as well as Christian and Eddie... I think they're the ones who have all the marine installation experience.

HiTech is the brains behind my installs. I'm just a wire jockey and good with a hole saw. You can't just buy parts and put them in a boat and then wonder why it didn't last, doesn't sound good or is falling apart. It takes knowledge, time and experience to install a system in a boat and have it rock. People are shocked at prices on installs, I've done a bunch with hitech and they always take more time than he bids them at.

I'm running five batteries in my boat. Two are stereo batteries and three are marine batteries. My boat goes on a marine charger every time I come back to the dock - I haven't ran out of juice yet [smilie=crazy]

[26 Spyder]

The cat in the previous pics was one of ours, it is one of the few Awesome 38s on the lake. It won 2nd in the first stereo shootout.. Go figure...

[Somewhere In the Sun]

FWIW- I have a 21 foot boat with 2 marine batteries run in parallel. I do have an onboard charger that I plug up to every night. I have never once had a starting problem on the water.

HiTechRedNeck and NebraskaBaja installed my stereo. Nothing huge, I have 4 speakers, 10 inch sub, and an amp. Hits pretty good for a small stereo but I can run it loud all day.

My advice, spend the money on a charger and invest in quality batteries. I have thought about adding a 3rd battery and putting a switch in to seperate one battery just for the motor. We will see, I haven't had a problem yet.

[26 Spyder]

I love the vent holes for the subs under the seat. What is the total number of speakers in the boat?

Buddha
HMMMM... Its been awhile for that one...

The subs were Diamond Audio DVC 15s, total of 4, 2 under each seat. The seat bases were replaced with the enclosures.

There were at least 4 Diamond 6" component sets.

The killer was the compression horns firing thru the top of the dash, reflecting off of the windshield and hitting you in the face!

The Amps were Rockford BD 1000s (4, 1 for each sub) and I think (3) 500s for each pair of mids and horns.

Sony head unit and Audio Control EQX for adjustments.

[rweber81]

When I bought my boat it only had one battery but had two battery racks or holders. The power cable comming from the engine is connected to a little box that has fins, kind of looks like a coil or little tiny (4" by 4") amp. It then has two red power cables going to the same post on the battery.
Is this a battery isolator and when I put my second battery in should the 2nd red cable go to the pos. post on the second battery? (instead of wiring it in series)

[BDM]

Pics rweber, I need pics.... but it sounds like an isolater from the description....

[Christian]

Very nice installs, I have been doing this for a while and the best bet is get a nice efficient system and give it as much battery power as you can, I ran two of group 31 big batteries from wally world in my 23 foot boat and they would last 5 or 6 hours at full tilt boogie. I moved from there to 8 batteries in the 29 ( 4 for stereo, 2 for fridge, inverter etc and one for each motor) and they would play all day, and that stereo did 139 A weighted so it had some punch power series behind it (1500s and 800s) and it would play all day, in the 38 I have 9 batteries, 6 for the stereo and cabin, one for each motor and one for the genny and it has a few PDX amps in the install and it is louder and plays longer than any system I have had in a boat, but looks factory, kinda :mrgreen:

The key is buying decent batteries, keeping up with them if they require maint and buying a good charger that gets plugged in every time you return to your slip / storage

buying the right amps is also key, I have punch power series for years as well and levinson amps and they got LOUD, but for the power vs efficiency I would say Alpine PDX all day long a little more money, but worth it all day long in terms of what you get for the $$ and the savings in efficiency.

The only boats I have ever been beat by in the shootout in my classes have been from Justin at W&W, until this year :twisted:

good luck and if you have questions please just ask, remember, more is not always better sometimes the same money for less can get you more

[Christian]

here is what I did in the 38

http://midwestboatparty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18629

[Christian]

And rev 1.0 of the Powerquest

http://midwestboatparty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7244

[rweber81]

i will try to get to storage and take some pics this weekend. Has to be an isolator cause it just has 3 4gauge red cables comming out. One to motor and two to the battery. I will be pysched if it is an isolator and it works correctly. When i ran a second battery parralel last year i drained to batterys quite often cause i have no sense of time when im jamming out and slamming beers. (of course im one of those guys who floats down river with no jumper cables and no jump pack)

[csheldon]

If refering to me, nope! I am all hands on and have the scars and bloody knuckles to prove it.:mrgreen:
I am digging a piece of fiberglass out of my thumb right now as I type....

I have hired help in the past and found the only way to get it done right is for me to do it myself!:roll:


No, it was to Matt, just got to bust his balls now and then. Its all in fun, I was slow for about three months. Starting to get busy again, thank God. Need to recover from a bad 5 or 6 months of a bad car market.

[BDM]

FYI, for those that don't know and read csheldon's post above...

<----- Matt.

[26 Spyder]

No, it was to Matt, just got to bust his balls now and then. Its all in fun, I was slow for about three months. Starting to get busy again, thank God. Need to recover from a bad 5 or 6 months of a bad car market.


I figured it out, I should have read the title in your post...:roll:
Hopefully the cars pick up as well.... Only time will tell...

[BINGO]

FWIW- I have a 21 foot boat with 2 marine batteries run in parallel. I do have an on-board charger that I plug up to every night. I have never once had a starting problem on the water.

My advice, spend the money on a charger and invest in quality batteries. I have thought about adding a 3rd battery and putting a switch in to seperate one battery just for the motor. We will see, I haven't had a problem yet.

I agree quality batteries and an on-board charger.

I have a very similar setup. 21' Foot boat, Two Blue Top Optimas and on-board charger w plug in on stern of boat. The batteries will drain during the day but have always started the boat. I carry a jump box just in case. Plug in every night when back home. The stereo has three amps about 1000 watts each, a capacitor, and one 12" sub. Never had a problem.

[bigmanr6]

man there are some pretty sweet setups you guys have makes me want to redo mine

[Helmwurst]

26 Spyder.........
WOW... I remember that first stereo shootout, that has been awhile. I also used to take my 320 Baja to W Point ocassionally when I was too lazy for oil service.

[drewplus2]

Can anyone recommend a good electrical guy? I would like to add some batteries to my boat......It already has 2....but I'm getting ready to have a new stereo system installed and would like additional power.....Thanks!

[CrownLS]

The AGM batteries are the only way to go. After fighting the problem for awhile I switched to AGM and have not had a problem since. Not a huge system but I can run my Kicker amp powering 6 Focal speakers and Alpine amp with 12" Alpine sub all day no problems.

[boatnks]

You really need to go with a isolator or a switch like a perko switch (most boats have battery switches). AGM batteries are great. I also recommend kinetic and optimas. I installed 2 deep cycle batteries, 4 - 10" subs, 8 - 61/2 coax, EQ, 2 - amps, Cap, & 0aug wire power & ground.
Installing a onboard charger is a great idea. you can charge at home, charge on the dock, and if you have a friend willing charge off his generator in party cove.

[HiTechRedNeck]

As some have stated, The most important starting point for a system that you will be listening to while the engine is not running is a good marine charger/maintainer of finishing charger(one that does not overcharge the batteries, and maintains them at 13.8v). This is important because unless you have a generator running to charge the batteries the alternator will never fully charge the batteries on your short trip from the cove to the dock. As far as batteries(size and type) agm are smaller in footprint for the amount of reserve you get compare to a standard lead acid battery, but agm are more expensive. So it boils down to space and how long you want to be able to play the system. We could go thru a formula but I prefer to just put in more battery than you think you need and keep them separate from the starting batteries or isolate them(charging isolator). So if you are worried about space use 1 or 2 Kenetic or other agm batteries. If you have the room you can use a lead acid Batt that is an 8D. It has about 4 time the reserve of a group 31 batt, but it is big and heavy(160 lbs.!). But the price is right on them. Sam's Club has them for about $150. We could go on about this but more reserve is always better and starting with a full charge is very important.

[HiTechRedNeck]

FYI, I have done a few marine installs as well. Somewhere I have a first place trophy from the first lake stereo shootout..:)

Not too bad for a work boat!

Spyder, Nice system. I love "sleeper" of all types![smilie=appl]

[CrownLS]

Any suggestions on a good battery charger/maintainer? I assume that if you plug it in overnight after using the battery all day it will be ready the following day?

[HiTechRedNeck]

Brett @ PBC sells some Guest Brand Chargers. I have used them on some of the medium size stereo stuff(1 to 2 amplifier systems). I think he has dual bank chargers in 2X5amps, 2X10amps and maybe even 2x20amps in stock. I suggest the 2x10 for most, and you would probably be good on a overnite charge. Brett will take care of you on the price. (866) 346-0248 http://www.premierboatingcenter.com Most know he is a MWBP sponsor.

[26 Spyder]

26 Spyder.........
WOW... I remember that first stereo shootout, that has been awhile. I also used to take my 320 Baja to W Point ocassionally when I was too lazy for oil service.

It has been awhile... I am sure we have met then since I did most of the oil changes on the dock there. I was the tall skinny guy.[smilie=042.gif]

[Helmwurst]

Yes I do remember you and your boat sound system. I sold the Baja years ago to a guy from STL, and bought the 35 Fontain I have now. I just redid the sound system in it last year and adding two new speakers to the rear seat base this Spring. Too bad W point or someplace like it is still not around.... I liked the concept.

[rweber81]

If I get an onboard charger/battery maintainer, shoue it be hooked up before the battery Isolator? Or do I need a mainainter that charges two batteries? If I have a mainainer that charges two batteries will this complete the circuit between the two batteries and make the Isolator pointless?

[Griff]

With just 2 batteries, I would use a perko switch.

You need a 2 bank charger. Unless you are somewhere with power where you can charge them while on the water, you might as well just use a regular 10 amp portable charger for a lot less money at home.

[rweber81]

I already have the battery Isolator hooked up. My boat had one the whole time and didnt know it. How would or should I charge both batteries at the same time then since they are not wired directly to each other. Put the positive of the charger on the positive of the Isolator?

P.S. Harbor frieght has battery maintainers for like $15 - $50 bucks. Worth it or are thay just junk?

[Griff]

Make sure to get a Marine charger. The maintainers are just trickle chargers. You need a 2 bank charger. Its gets wired direct to each battery. That way, if one battery is low, it will only charge that battery. It won't cause the batteries to become connected. The isolator is what keeps it from pulling power from both batteries.

[bsloop]

I run an isolator as well.
My start is a standard marine Lead Acid while my stereo bank is a pair of Optima blue AGM. My isolator can compensate for the reduced voltage an AGM should recieve. I charge with a standard 30-50amp computer controlled battery charger. I find hooking to the start battery will charge all but to "top off" the AGM's I need to connect direct.
Problem with a reg charger, I can not just plug and forget like a true marine charger but where I store, I cant leave it plugged in anyway.

Idealy you need a two bank marine charger.
A smaller 5/5 charger would be ok on a budget to just plug in between use. If you are playing hard back to back days, a regular charger for overnight recovery would prob be necessary.

A cheap "maintainer" can not give the proper charge profile for discharged batteries.

[ggspot]

were can you find more info on isolator and how to install them geting ready to do new sys in 29 envision looking to do it right

[Griff]

were can you find more info on isolator and how to install them geting ready to do new sys in 29 envision looking to do it right


Go to www.boatfix.com and search battery isolator. Lots of different models for different applications.